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Martin Walsh
[Full Interview] [Topic Top]
What do you do specifically to build that trust when you come on
the scene or begin to interact?
Answer:
I think a lot of it is how you come across to the person. The respect you give them, how you
treat them, the importance of it. I've seen some of our people, while doing the assessment, they
are not building the trust but almost building a negative relationship by the questions they ask,
how they ask them. It is almost interpreted, as I perceive it, as interrogation, investigation.
Question:
Could you give me an example of an ineffective question and then an effective way at
getting at the same kind of information?
Answer:
Well, one of the big concerns in one of our conflicts was the lack of minorities in city
government. The mediator came into the meeting and said, "I want to ask you some questions
about your minority recruitment. How many minorities do you have in your agency?" and start
writing it down. "What did you say? Ten percent? Twelve percent?" So the mediator starts
conveying not a mediation-conciliation role but conveying an interrogation-investigative manner
and already starting to build a different type of relationship with the person. Right from the
beginning the mediator's role is being interpreted wrongly. The other is just conveying respect for
the person you're talking to. We refer to it as the informal, non-verbal communication process --
how you're relating to persons, what you're saying, what they're saying, are you listening to them,
are you hearing them, are you relating to them? That's the thing and if the persons don't feel
you're listening to them, basically you don't care about them, then you are not building that type
of interpersonal relations with them that builds the trust, confidence and the amount of respect
and feeling that while you're a professional, you're also understanding.
Question:
If you were going to initiate the discussion about minorities and the particular government
example you gave, how would you address that issue?
Answer:
To the mayor, after the "who we are" and whatever, "You know one of the concerns that
we've been hearing about from the community is that there's a lack of African Americans,
Asians, other minorities in city government. What can you say about that? What's been
happening and what's your perspective on that?" Then they can start talking about what they see,
what they've been trying to do. I think their initial response is to be defensive anyway and they're
going to talk about all the things they've done and the obstacles. I lead them on, too. "Have you
had problems recruiting and what are they?" After they go through it, they'll probably say, "We
have this we've been trying to." What they have done in the past. What has worked and what
hasn't worked from their perspective and their willingness to go to other lengths when the issue
gets into a mediation process.
| Renaldo Rivera
[Full Interview] [Topic Top]
Question:
Related to that, do you have other techniques that you use to build trust between you and the
parties or between the parties themselves?
Answer:
Yes. There is something that I believe in fundamentally. Everything else has been systems
theory, if you've noticed my approach is not just systemic it's systematic in that I work from a
systems theory viewpoint. I have a very fundamental belief that in the intense presence of good,
evil can not prevail. Now that means intense presence of good. That's just not being good, sort
of good, and okay. I have a belief in that, a fundamental belief, and I know it to be true. So if I
can be that being, even if it only winds up witness to a conflict or a confrontation, then that
means that things probably won't get worse. So it's really the capacity for caring and the capacity
for the compassion around the human suffering that's taking place and an understanding of those
who may be creating the suffering that their own dehumanization is happening in that process.
My ability to try to help them stem themselves from their own fate, from their own action by
introducing a degree of kindness and listening to my respect and dignified treatment, that can
make a difference. Now if you get "pure evil," and they want to do it the way they want to do it,
well that's what they do and that's because they like it and that's what they're about. Well, in that
case at least we'll be able to circumscribe how much damage they can do or delimit or in some
way fence it off and help others not to become like them. That's where, if you fight a strategy
which is pernicious with a pernicious strategy of your own, all you do is become more pernicious
for whatever reason than you think you're doing it. Your behaviors and your methods of
operation will be counted toward your long-term interest. So trying to find people with more
principled ways of action and to embody those in my behavior and in my treatment without a lot
of pontification, just in my day-to-day interaction and in the course of working through a crisis
from the time I receive it and listen to a person who indicates it, to the time I assess it on sight
and work through it is a constant interaction to try to remember that fundamental human
relationship and that fundamental humanity so that people can work through it. I think that goes
to belief, it's technique, it's beyond technique. It's belief and it's a manner of being in a code of
conduct.
Question:
You didn't use the word empathy?
Answer:
Well, I used compassion, but it is empathy. You know sympathy will get you killed in this
business. I mean you'll die from burnout and so will extraordinary degrees of compassion, as
much as you feel it. But your ability to empathize will let you work with all the parties longer
and to communicate with them better. Without waxing too much about this, it is just the belief.
It comes from the indigenous belief, which was part of my training with Gov. Louis. People
learn how to love by being loved. Well people learn how to empathize by experiencing it. There
isn't a whole lot of it going around, especially in conflict situations. Being able to at least be able
to put yourself in the other person's point of view and for them to feel you there is helpful to you
and helpful to them. On the technique side it's very disarming.
Martin
Walsh
[Full Interview] [Topic Top]
The first thing you do is to go through the spiel about here is the process. There are
several avenues. "There is the internal review process by the police to do the investigation; you
have the county attorney; you have the state attorney general who has jurisdiction; and you have
the possible investigation by the FBI and Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice." So
at least they know what their options are, what can take place and what the process is. After that,
the other option is a civil case that can take place. "While that is ongoing," I tell them, "it is
going to take some time. You can be recommending that and asking for this investigation or that
investigation and things like that. In the meantime, I want to talk about
other things that are taking place here. What is the relationship with the police department, how
is it?" That starts the ball rolling as I try to elicit from them issues, concerns that now, with the
attention given to the shooting, lend themselves to the dynamic of dealing with the problems and
concerns in the relationship between the police and the community.
Stephen Thom
[Full Interview] [Topic Top]
"Could I see you or meet
with you at any point?" I ask that right away, because I think they can't begin to build trust until
they see you, they get a sense of what you're about, and I've always found that to be surprisingly
easy for me, I don't know why. Sitting down with people, and sometimes being very factual and
explaining what we're trying to accomplish as a service to them and of course at no cost to them.
I think it is always a kind of, "Why not take the risk?" I think it is a marketing process, but it
really takes a face-to-face marketing opportunity, and it's a service that will hopefully accomplish
their objectives.
| Martin Walsh
[Full Interview] [Topic Top]
We had done a lot of work at UMass previously. The major
previous problem was in 1986, right after the World Series with the Mets in which the Red Sox
lost in the last game. It touched off a major campus protest and ended up as racial
confrontations. We'd been out there after that to rebuild some of the relations; it had degenerated
very quickly into a racial confrontation. Many Met supporters at UMass were African Americans
from New York who were attending the school and a number of the white kids they got into
trouble with were from the Boston area.
Question:
Is this UMass in Amherst?
Answer:
Amherst. We had a history of working with UMass and UMass had a history of racial
problems.
Stephen Thom
[Full Interview] [Topic Top]
The issues
are what we don't have, what services are needed and how we are denied this and whatever. I've
heard people say, "They're so negative. Can you make them more neutral." So I've kind of
looked at that. Because here we are, going to the table and it sounds like we're brokering, even in
our agenda, for the complainant, because of the way I've framed the complaints. So, I've
reviewed this matter after some questions by the non-complainant party as to can these issues be
construed as statements that make overtures of position and are weighted in a way that they
almost become advocacy positions. As a mediator, it's incumbent on us to try and take out some
of the positioning and present the issues in a neutral and balanced way. So I do alter some of the
issues at times now,
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